Saturday, December 4, 2004

Long, winding chat.

Maarii88: hey mitch
machineofbones: HI
Maarii88: how's it?
machineofbones: what is a good person like you doing hear
machineofbones: WELL!!
Maarii88: just a bit lonesome.and stuff. felt like checking in with you. making sure your still alive. '
machineofbones: OK
Maarii88: you like capitals?
machineofbones: YES I DO
Maarii88: i see
Maarii88: everything else in your life?
machineofbones: Yes yes yes.
Maarii88: right
Maarii88: *sigh*
machineofbones: BACON!!!
Maarii88: *humming alone to herself* right then. i'll leave you to it
machineofbones: YEs
machineofbones: have you ever play GTASA?
Maarii88: no
machineofbones: IT is cool
Maarii88: sure
machineofbones: That was all my stupid brother.
Maarii88: eh?
machineofbones: My brother was talking to you, and I didn't know, and I just came in the room and kicked him off.
Maarii88: oh
Maarii88: tell your brother that he's dumb. and I mean that as a compliment
machineofbones: He's 13, and rather annoying most of the time.
machineofbones: His sole existence is to play video games.
Maarii88: i kind of got that
machineofbones: As evidenced by what he was talking to you about.
Maarii88: just from that tiny little conversation - if it could even be called that
machineofbones: I have played GTA: San Andreas about 5 hours since I got it weeks ago - he's probably played it about 100 or so now, and I'm not kidding by any amount.
Maarii88: wowsuh. scary
Maarii88: well. how are you really?
machineofbones: I'm sick.
Maarii88: now that i'm on with the real mitch. ohhhhh how sad. everyone is getting sick and i'm only getting lonely
machineofbones: My ears are plugged up, everytime I swallow I feel my sore throat, just a bit ago my eye was watering and feeling irratated.
machineofbones: *irritated
machineofbones: Runny nose.
Maarii88: ohhh *sends a healing hug Mitch's way* feel better
Maarii88: drink fluids
Maarii88: get sleep
Maarii88: and all that.
machineofbones: Well it didn't feel this bad most of today. It's because I was at work and had to wash, and was exposed to the smell of bleach and other crap the whole time.
Maarii88: *big frown*yuckness
machineofbones: Yupl
machineofbones: That's what they've had me doing there for about 1 month and a half straight now.
machineofbones: Every day, wash wash wash wash wash.
machineofbones: I've become pretty proficent at it, though.
Maarii88: still. that sucks. I'd quit. but that's just me
machineofbones: I can't. I've got to pay my car payment each month. I'd have to get a new job first.
Maarii88: uhg
Maarii88: well. i'm billless. sooo
machineofbones: Plus I want to save up some money.
Maarii88: good iddea
machineofbones: Which isn't working out too well.
Maarii88: well. another ugh.
machineofbones: Yup. Life sucks.
Maarii88: i'm glad your life seems sooo ..... happy. and wonderful
machineofbones: Yes, this week was pretty bad.
Maarii88: me too
machineofbones: My iPod was stolen, blah blah blah. I won't labor down the details.
Maarii88: o_o yikes. god. certainly sucked
machineofbones: Yeah, most people are such idiots.
Maarii88: as in stealin?
machineofbones: They cannot understand the simple knowledge that stealing is wrong.
machineofbones: I mean, but I guess it was okay. It only cost me $300. . .
machineofbones: But oh well.
Maarii88: that's still a big chunk of money
machineofbones: Yes, and the above was sarcasm.
Maarii88: i get
Maarii88: it
Maarii88: now. sorry - i'm not in tip top shape of brain
machineofbones: It's fine.
Maarii88: no - it's not. but waht can you do
machineofbones: Mhm. Well, it really doesn't matter to me. I'm pretty brain dead right now too I'd say.
Maarii88: yeah
Maarii88: most
Maarii88: of
Maarii88: us
Maarii88: are
Maarii88: - - -
Maarii88: uhg
machineofbones: I would go to bed if I could go to bed. It's going to take a while to fall asleep with the annoyance of my nose and other things.
Maarii88: i imagine so
machineofbones:
Maarii88: what?
machineofbones: I didn't say anything.
Maarii88: oh
Maarii88: sorry
Maarii88: how's the holiday for you
machineofbones: I don't even feel a sense of holiday.
machineofbones: The last time I enjoyed Christmas was when I was a kid. That was four or so years ago.
Maarii88: mmm. don't depress me more. mitch.
machineofbones: Plus, I do not believe in the religion which the holiday is fashioned after.
machineofbones: I am agnostic.
machineofbones: Although, I suppose I can see something in giving others presents.
Maarii88: well. i'm not talking specific holiday here. any and all of them
machineofbones: But rather than waste money and get material things, I'd rather write something to them and read it to them. It would be worth far more.
machineofbones: I don't feel anything at all on any holiday really. Halloween is probably my favorite, just because it is in the fall - my favorite month - and is often creepy and so on, like I like it.
machineofbones: The main thing I enjoy about holidays is you get a break from school and work.
Maarii88: great for you, mitch.
Maarii88: i love christmas. but it hates me
machineofbones: Yes, it is great for me.
machineofbones: I don't know how you really said that to me, since this is only text, but all I did was give you an answer to your question.
machineofbones: Why does Christmas hate you?
Maarii88: I don't know. I just know it does.
machineofbones: Whatever that is supposed to mean - I have no clue what you're getting at.
Maarii88: well. do you need to? No.
Maarii88: if you want to .. that's another thing
machineofbones: Oh well then, nevermind.
machineofbones: What is the point of a conversation where what is conversed about is not even answered?
Maarii88: i don't know....... i am answering. ... replying. what'd the big deal? I'm not allowed to be pissy like everybody else?!
machineofbones: Don't overgeneralize. Not everyone is "pissy," heh. I'm not pissy.
Maarii88: no ... you're a self-congratulated ass.
machineofbones: I just was wondering what you meant by what you said, that Christmas hates you. Oh well.
machineofbones: Swearing at me isn't going to do much of anything, you know. Even if I am in a bad mood I don't call you names.
Maarii88: what?! it doesn't make sense? Christmas hates me. Noun verb and .. whatever.
machineofbones: . . .
machineofbones: Christmas is a thing, it is not alive, therefore it cannot hate.
Maarii88: i'm always lonely. i'm always sad. i'm always angry. I'm always looking around at all the self-absorbed people everywhere
Maarii88: and nothing is right.
machineofbones: And the irony is that you are self-absorbed like everyone else?
Maarii88: during christmas...... no..... ..... i like people
machineofbones: But you're lonely, angry, sad. Those sound like inward, absorbing feelings to me.
Maarii88: they are inward but... i just want to see happiness. i try to spread it..... i care about these people. .. I do..
machineofbones: If you're lonely, go find someone. If you're angry, use the anger and it will be abated. If you are sad, find something which humors you and whiles away the sadness.
Maarii88: ...... that's not it.
machineofbones: Happiness is a lie to me.
Maarii88: and I don't expect you to understand. God only knows why i'm telling the ultimate pessimist about this
machineofbones: Well it sounds like you need someone to talk to.
Maarii88: you don't even want happiness.. for yourself or others
machineofbones: I am someone, you know.
machineofbones: I'm not an ultimate pessimist.
Maarii88: yeah - but a someone who only worsens my problems by indulging them
machineofbones: I care about other people, too.
Maarii88: yeah? i don't see it , mitch. i don't.
machineofbones: Well you've not met me.
Maarii88: you're right. i haven't
Maarii88: but you wouldn't be up there telling me.... would you.
machineofbones: Telling what?
Maarii88: that you care about people. ... i think I've only heard you say that once. just now
machineofbones: Any human being cares about some people.
Maarii88: actualy - i don't think that's true
machineofbones: Go ahead and explain why you don't think it's true.
Maarii88: and i don't know why You of all people would say it.
Maarii88: i think some people are so disillusioned with the world that they think caring does not exist and they close themselves off completely
machineofbones: There are people who don't care about others, but generally, people care about at least one other person than themselves.
Maarii88: generally - not all the time. -- not like I'm saying you don't. i'm sure you do. you're too thoughtful not to
machineofbones: Sometimes I do not care, other times I do.
Maarii88: it's that easy to turn off for you?
machineofbones: I'm not in the same type of mood every day you know.
Maarii88: obviously. who is...... but ...... it's just strange. i guess
machineofbones: When you think about it, the ultimate reason you care about others is for yourself.
machineofbones: It makes you feel better.
Maarii88: ........ it doesn't for me
machineofbones: So it makes you feel worse to care for others?
machineofbones: Then why do you care then?
machineofbones: If you did not care then you wouldn't feel worse.
Maarii88: it doesn't make me feel better ...... but i can't not do it. I hate caring about my friends who don't really know me. my family .............................................. everybody, people in general who don't even want my caring.
Maarii88: i CAN'T not care. ..... it's a part of me
Maarii88: and I can't get rid of it
Maarii88: i've tried. ... but i end up caring anyway... even if I don't like somebody....
machineofbones: Well with that mindset you certainly can't.
machineofbones: You can do anything, within limitations.
Maarii88: no. Mitch, I have seriously tried so hard to stop caring about people. I mean, as soon as I let my guard down, I'm in again. wondering. thinking.
machineofbones: But it is hard for me to understand, because I'm not you and haven't really ever cared for others in the deeper level you do.
Maarii88: caring
Maarii88: why?
Maarii88: why why why why? i don't GET it!!!
machineofbones: Don't get what? How I can't understand?
machineofbones: Or why you care?
Maarii88: no..... how you can't care! that's the thing! people just refuse to care.....
Maarii88: because it is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo HARD
machineofbones: Well that is just for you.
Maarii88: it kills me. it does.
machineofbones: People are different.
machineofbones: Not everyone is the same.
Maarii88: if it were easy, everyone would do it.
Maarii88: what i mean is..... if caring didn't cost anything
Maarii88: then EVERY person would care as much as possible. really.
Maarii88: but that's not how it works
machineofbones: Well, America is all about individualism.
machineofbones: It is what I've been brought up, and it is so encased in all I am, that is just who I am.
machineofbones: I care about me, and that is about as far as it goes. And sometimes I do not really care about me, either.
Maarii88: you know what, though? I was raised here too. I was raised in America in this society in these times. but why can't I say that?
machineofbones: Well, I don't know.
machineofbones: How was your childhood?
machineofbones: Did your parents hug you every day, kiss you every day.
machineofbones: Did something condition you to care? I don't know.
Maarii88: no. not everyday. yeah. i love my parents. but... my life wasn't perfect. it was just life.
Maarii88: i had the conditioning that people can get from ...... being a human
machineofbones: Well, scientifically, genes play a role in who we are, and so does the enviroment - how you are raised, etc.
Maarii88: so?
machineofbones: Those two combined together make you who you are
Maarii88: are you going to fall back on that? as some kind of excuse? '
Maarii88: that's pathetic.
Maarii88: we are who we choose to be.
machineofbones: I disagree completely.
machineofbones: We have no choice.
machineofbones: We don't choose our genes.
machineofbones: Our enviroment.
Maarii88: but we choose our actions, our thoughts, our feelings.
machineofbones: We have some choice in the matter, yes.
Maarii88: we choose what is inside our minds.
Maarii88: and that is who we are.
machineofbones: No, it is not. There is still who you are physically.
machineofbones: By choosing what's in our minds that does not make us who we are physically.
machineofbones: That is predefined by genes.
machineofbones: And then enviroment changes it a bit.
Maarii88: physically..... is just shallow. ...... what if you were blind?
machineofbones: Often when someone loses a sense, the other senses are heightned.
Maarii88: so what? I'm talking about that transcendental thing. .. you know.. like a soul. it's the person we are inside. this core of being. humanity
machineofbones: So I'd imagine I wouldn't see things physically, but I'd still interact with the physical in some way.
machineofbones: I don't believe in souls.
Maarii88: yeah . but that's all a matter of perception. which we can control
Maarii88: why the fuck would you not believe in souls?
machineofbones: Because as far as I see there is none.
Maarii88: but .... hello! idiot, you have one!
machineofbones: Okay. Where is it?
machineofbones: Can you touch it?

Maarii88: why do i need to touch it? can you touch history?
machineofbones: You can read about it and you know it happened in some way, but perhaps not the exact way it is written about.
machineofbones: A soul, you don't know if it exists for real or not.
Maarii88: but you don't know if history exsits or not.
Maarii88: you just want to believe it
machineofbones: No, history is a fact. But it depends on how far back in history we are talking about.
machineofbones: For things closer to our time, there is video. There is proff.
machineofbones: *proof
machineofbones: There are veterans of wars, etc.
Maarii88: that's not proof. it's just pictures.
Maarii88: it's not the entirety of a situation
Maarii88: that's like saying that this picture of my eye and the red puffyness is the exact account of my life
machineofbones: We're organic machines. We have our brains, our brains get sensation and we turn it into perception - how we see things.
Maarii88: yes. it's the how. the how we can control. thought process.
Maarii88: history is memory
Maarii88: subject to humanity's interpretation
machineofbones: As I said, history did happen, but what is written in a text may not be entirely accurate, and yes, it is definitely opinionated.
machineofbones: But it still did happen.
Maarii88: then a soul IS real
machineofbones: How so?
machineofbones: It is defined as "The disembodied spirit of a dead human."
Maarii88: because you didn't witness history. okay. but you still believe it. because of these facts and whatever. you want to belive it. and if you want to believe in a soul.. then it's real too. mitch, even after you died... I'd remember you. and you'd still be here. in my memories, or in words, or pictures, or something. you still exist.
Maarii88: existence is soul
machineofbones: But existence does not last forever.
Maarii88: yes. it does
machineofbones: You don't know this.
Maarii88: because matter isnot destroyed. can not be
machineofbones: Yes, but you have to be able to sense existence and then perceive it.
Maarii88: you don't knowthat the egyptians built the pyramids
machineofbones: Matter can continue to float around, but once you are dead, you are dead.
Maarii88: but you are rememberdc
Maarii88: remembered
machineofbones: Eventually, mankind will go extinct.
machineofbones: It is inevitable.
machineofbones: Will I be remembered then?
machineofbones: No.
Maarii88: yes
Maarii88: by the earth that held you and holds you still
machineofbones: Eventually the sun will become a red giant and swallow the earth.
Maarii88: by your particles bumping into other particles .. recognizing you
machineofbones: Or rather, recognizing what was once me. What is no longer me at all.
machineofbones: Just a lifeless, dead thing, gone through decay, and so on.
Maarii88: but still. you're particles.
Maarii88: you don't cease to exist
machineofbones: I cease to perceive, and others cease to perceive me. That is the existence I am talking about.
machineofbones: Being alive.
machineofbones: Not just being some floating particle.
Maarii88: sooo what? you'll always be alive.
machineofbones: No.
Maarii88: yes
machineofbones: How?
Maarii88: because how will you know when you're not?
machineofbones: When I die.
machineofbones: I will know then.
Maarii88: no.... you won't know when you die. you won't be able to know
machineofbones: I do not know what happens when you die, and I am not going to worry about it till it comes.
Maarii88: you're brain will stop
Maarii88: therefore. all you will ever know is alive . ....
machineofbones: I would like to just be nothing though, not have any consciousness at all, just be gone.
Maarii88: sadly, you can't be
Maarii88: not anymore
machineofbones: This doesn't mean souls exist. I do not know if they do or not. I will know it when I know it. Until then, it is a petty idea that might hold some truth and may not.
Maarii88: why?
Maarii88: why don't you believe it. what thing inside you keeps you from believing in something so simple and so profoundly ... .... human.
machineofbones: Because it is not an undeniable truth.
Maarii88: nothing is
machineofbones: I already know this.
machineofbones: Nothingness is an undeniable truth.
Maarii88: no ....... i deny it
machineofbones: lol
machineofbones: Even though the words already wrote themselves.
Maarii88: i do... i defy nothingness. i don't believe it .
Maarii88: it's not my truth
machineofbones: Well, that I respect. I don't fully understand but I respect it and it is your right to believe as you wish. I hope it makes you stronger.
Maarii88: you make yourself weak mitch. make yourself unhappy
Maarii88: i wish
Maarii88: ........... *sigh
machineofbones: Weak because I don't believe in empty things? All it is is a mind finding reasons when reasons aren't there.
machineofbones: But of course what I believe is an empty thing to you.
Maarii88: weak because you won't try. weak because you don't want to anymore
Maarii88: nothing is empty. if it's not empty to you
machineofbones: Oh, I try at things. I put myself into things and push and push.
machineofbones: Even if it is pointless, it doesn't mean I can't do some things profound.
Maarii88: no -- you'll never be profound, mitch, until you realize that it's more than nothing. it means something
machineofbones: It does mean something and that something is nothing.
Maarii88: and you can't believe that what you do means anything if you don't believe it.
Maarii88: something isn't nothing.
machineofbones: Nothing I do means anything. In the laywork of things I am small. Not small as an atom but I am small.
machineofbones: Nothing is something.
Maarii88: yes. small......... and in your mind, nothing. therefore that's what you'll always be. and you'll never realize any kind of potential. because it costs too much.
Maarii88: and i'm NOT talking about money
machineofbones: Then what cost do you speak of?
Maarii88: your life.
Maarii88: it takes a lot of investment, emotionally, mentally, to believe in stuff. because those beliefs are tested so often
machineofbones: I can write. I have potential there and it grows and grows.
Maarii88: no -- it's stagnant because you aren't changing. you aren't believing in anything
machineofbones: I believe in living my life to its fullest even if it is pointless. I believe in doing what makes me feel good. But I know always that none of it matters.
Maarii88: then you just contradicted yourself...... which doesn't change anything
Maarii88: do you want to live life to it's fullest?
Maarii88: do you really ?
Maarii88: because I believe you do
machineofbones: If a man thinketh himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. --Gal. vi. 3.
Maarii88: wel.... if you aren't nothing.... than you aren't deceiving yourself
Maarii88: do you think I'm nothing?
machineofbones: You are something.
machineofbones: A something that in the long wrong will amount to nothing.
machineofbones: IN THE LONG RUN, but not in the short run.
machineofbones: Not during the span of your life.
Maarii88: well. i don't believe you. I am something , yes. but I am something that will amount to everything and anything
machineofbones: In the short run you shall amount to something.
Maarii88: mitch, you have to keep repeating your contradictions. i think you don't really believe them. but you don't want to say
Maarii88: you don't want to leave off the last bit
Maarii88: you don't want to see worth
machineofbones: Eventually mankind will become extinct. Eventually the sun will swallow the earth. Eventually everything will be gone and replaced by something else.
Maarii88: so what?
machineofbones: In the long run it doesn't matter. The universe continues going on even if you're gone, even if you'd've not existed.
Maarii88: so what? so what? that doens't have anything to do with you!
machineofbones: If humans had not existed, the universe still would.
Maarii88: you aren't the universe or God or anything
machineofbones: I am not the universe nor god nor anything.
Maarii88: you are you.... born as what you are and capapble of being .....
machineofbones: I'm just an organism living and one day I'll die.
Maarii88: you won't know it.
Maarii88: i swear to you mitch, you won't know death. because you won't be alive
Maarii88: it won't matter
machineofbones: You aren't born as what you are. You have to grow. You don't come born with all the knowledge you'll learn.
Maarii88: no........ but you are born human.
Maarii88: born to become
Maarii88: born to grow
Maarii88: born to all this
machineofbones: Humans aren't anything all too special. They are animals, too, just as whales and everything else on the earth. We only have specialized brains, which gives us the advantage. Our existence is still pointless in the entire lay of everything. Eventually our time spent alive will not matter, it will be lost and forgotten.
Maarii88: so what?
Maarii88: are you Time? to lose and forget humans? no.. you're human. To live as you. whatever that may be.
machineofbones: And I'll live in the short time I have.
Maarii88: yes. you will.
machineofbones: But it is still pointless, it is still nothing.
Maarii88: just leave off all the "it's pointless" shit. and you actually will live to live insteadof live to die
machineofbones: How is it not pointless? Everything you affect one day will be gone itself so in the entire laywork, in the futures and ages that will go by from the time you are dead, it is pointless.
machineofbones: At the present, it has a point.
Maarii88: and what? you all of a sudden live in the future?
machineofbones: You will affect what is here now and in the future, but in the way distant future it will not matter.
machineofbones: Because inevitably mankind will be gone.
Maarii88: you don't live in the way future. or the immediete future or anything, dummy, you live now
machineofbones: I've said this.
Maarii88: so you saying, "it has a point now"
machineofbones: I said it has a point in the now.
Maarii88: means that it HAS A POINT
machineofbones: Has a point now, though.
machineofbones: Not in the long run.
Maarii88: you don't live in the damn "long run" you live now
machineofbones: Therefore it is pointless to me.
Maarii88: why do you try to define yourself by what you aren't.
Maarii88: by a place and time you don't live in?
machineofbones: Because eventually when I die I would like all these years spent to actually matter in the lay of things, but it won't happen, therefore it is pointless to exist at all.
Maarii88: no. actually. its not. you've already touched me. so you exist. and you can't erase my memory
Maarii88: you can't de-exist yourself
machineofbones: But time will erase that memory eventually forever.
Maarii88: how do you know?
machineofbones: That is what I feel. But I do not know.
machineofbones: I have to choose some side, and this is where I lean.
Maarii88: why?
machineofbones: Otherwise I would just be apathetical.
machineofbones: I would be indifferent. I would be in between.
Maarii88: and that's NOT apathetic
machineofbones:
Apathy is having no feeling.
machineofbones: Believing I will not matter is afeeling.
Maarii88: okay. soo .... why not be happy?
machineofbones: Because I refuse to be happy when it won't matter if I'm happy anyway.
Maarii88: if it's just as easy to say " i don't believe in happiness" as it is to say " i do believe in happiness"
Maarii88: then why not pick the good one
machineofbones: Because I am not happy that I will live all these years and in the long term it is pointless.
Maarii88: thenwhy believe it's pointless
machineofbones: I won't be happy just to be happy.
Maarii88: since you won't know anyway
Maarii88: WHY?! oh my GOD!
machineofbones: I won't be happy until I know.
Maarii88: happy just to be happy is like so wonderful
Maarii88: it's like....... totally not a bad thing
machineofbones: Being happy just to be happy is pointless.
machineofbones: I want true happiness.
Maarii88: so the fuck what?
Maarii88: if you know what true happiness is mitch. then go find it
Maarii88: if not. just find the happiness that is here
machineofbones: True happiness is knowing what I does matters for the long run.
Maarii88: that doesn't have to be true happiness
machineofbones: I am happy that what I do in the short run does something.
machineofbones: But that is not a true happiness, it is not absolute.
Maarii88: nothing is absolute. why not just be
machineofbones: Because being has to have a purpose.
Maarii88: being's purpose is being
machineofbones: If I could not feel not exist, that would be better if there is no point to existing.
Maarii88: mitch, why don't you kill yourself then?
machineofbones: In the long term it will not matter, so why exist at all?
Maarii88: because you do
machineofbones: Because I enjoy the short term even if it is pointless.
machineofbones: But if I had the choice to be born or not I would not be born.
Maarii88: you ....... how can you say that? You are a bastard. because you WERE born. and look how much you take for granted.
machineofbones: Then I would not be anything at all and I would not have to worry and think and such as I have here.
machineofbones: I take nothing for granted. It could be taken away at any time.
Maarii88: Just look around you. How many kids even have a computer. even have food? even have water?
machineofbones: Oh, don't give me this trip.
Maarii88: why?
Maarii88: because you don't want to hear it?
Maarii88: it's true
machineofbones: I really care less. I have what I have and I'll have it as long as I have it.
machineofbones: When I don't have it I don't have it.
Maarii88: you shouldn't have it
machineofbones: Well then take it from me.
Maarii88: i would never.
machineofbones: I shouldn't have anything, therefore I should have nothing.
machineofbones: I don't deserve anything, so I should have nothing.
Maarii88: but you do....... you doo..... you're so so stupid. i don't know what happened to you to make you like this. but if I could change it. then I would
machineofbones: As I said genes predispose who you are, and the enviorment shapes and tweaks these things.
machineofbones: *enviroment
Maarii88: mitch, if i could change you by loving you. i would. anything just to fix you. . ...... to open your eyes
machineofbones: My eyes are wide open, and I see pointlessness.
Maarii88: then they're still closed.......
machineofbones: Not from my vantage.
machineofbones: I see in crystal clear color, in the same acuity that all humans have. But my eyes are my own.
Maarii88: and they are so blind. to all goodness and all meaning......more than blind. they are shut away
machineofbones: That is what you think, and you can think whatever you want.
machineofbones: Just as I can.
Maarii88: why do you do this to yourself? mitch, ....... you have so much. and you squander it. like dust or something. dust which could be so bountiful if you put it to use. but it goes nowhere. and i don't want to walk away. which amazes me. i don't want to leave you alone to wallow in self-denial - because i can change you. i know i can. and one day... i will
Maarii88: one day you will be happy
machineofbones: I don't wallow in self-denial.
Maarii88: if only for a fleeting.. passing second.
Maarii88: and it'll be good
machineofbones: I've simply thought over matters deeply and this is where I stand, that is all. There is no wallowing
machineofbones: As I've said, I enjoy life, but I see it is pointless, and I enjoy it even so.
Maarii88: you don't see it as pointless. i think you like to say that as a safety guard. from being hurt. it's funny. you just can't deal with that.
machineofbones: In the short term it is not pointless at all.
machineofbones: In the long term it is.
machineofbones: Notice how I keep saying the same things over and over and over again?
Maarii88: yes. because you obviously don't understand your own theorems
Maarii88: because they are contradictory
machineofbones: Contradiction is a human.
Maarii88: mm. not really
Maarii88: everything makes sense eventually
Maarii88: you'll see
machineofbones: Not it won't.
machineofbones: *No
Maarii88: *nods
Maarii88: yes it will
Maarii88: chaos theory doesn't sit well with me. so everything will. eventually be made sense of
machineofbones: Well of course my senses make the sense.
Maarii88: and your mind and soul
Maarii88: you know.
Maarii88: if I believe you have a soul, then you do. which solves all our problems, doesn't it?
machineofbones: And my perceptions take the sense and make it my own.
machineofbones: But I don't know if a soul truly exists.
Maarii88: you are self-destructive. more than anyone i've ever met
Maarii88: and i think it's because you think so much. and are able to be so self-destructive
machineofbones: You make me sound so dramatic. Sadly, I'm not so.
machineofbones: I'm just Mitch.
Maarii88: it's not dramatic..... it's self-destructive
Maarii88: that's all
machineofbones: Whatever you want to call it. Even so, suicide isn't on the list of things to do any time soon.
Maarii88: good thing too. but i'm not talking about suicide. self-destruction is a lot worse, cuz you still have to feel
machineofbones: You are saying, then, that I won't ever have a whole sense of my self - a sense of identity?
machineofbones: I can agree with that.
Maarii88: nope.......actually i don't know who does. if anyone can
Maarii88: but that's not the point.
machineofbones: I destroy whatever actual "self" comes to me, because I quesiton it so muchl.
machineofbones: *question
machineofbones: *much
machineofbones: Self-destructive, as you said.
Maarii88: but i don't. and i think just as much as you do
Maarii88: mitch. i wish i didn't care about you
Maarii88: sad , eh?
machineofbones: Well I don't understand your caring so I can't say anything about it.
machineofbones: If I understood then I could say it was what it was to me.
Maarii88: you don't have to understand, or even accept it. it's still here
Maarii88: defying your theorem of nothing
machineofbones: It's a theorem, now, is it?
machineofbones: Perhaps I should I go public with it.
machineofbones: :p
Maarii88: no.. you shouldn't
machineofbones: Get it published, you know.
Maarii88: no
machineofbones: Get it out there.
Maarii88: it wouldn't be a big hit. actually - people would probably dismiss it. because it isn't the idea that's bad - because the idea doesn't meananything. it's what it does to you
machineofbones: Well what it does to me, it makes me happy in the happiest way possible.
Maarii88: no it doesn't
machineofbones: Exactly.
Maarii88: you already said you don't believe in happiness
Maarii88: ...... although I know you do
machineofbones: Happiness was what I had when I was ignorant, when I did not know and sought to know.
Maarii88: no
machineofbones: *and didn't seek to know
Maarii88: again misled
machineofbones: A child is happy because it is stupid, it only exists and does not question that existence.
Maarii88: exactly
Maarii88: but not the stupidty part
machineofbones: But I am not a child and I question everything.
Maarii88: i do too
Maarii88: and i question my existence
machineofbones: I don't mean stupid as in stupid, I mean it as in a child just doesn't have the mental ability to think beyond existing.
machineofbones: Their brains aren't wired to have abstract thought.
Maarii88: yes they are
machineofbones: This has been scientifically proven.
Maarii88: our brains are always wired to do stuff. we just do that stuff
machineofbones: There are stages in mental development.
machineofbones: Our brains develop over time.
machineofbones: We don't just come to, as a baby, with the ability to think abstractly.
machineofbones: It takes time.
Maarii88: yep. and I'm sure there are exceptions to that
Maarii88: i think children think very abstract thoughts
machineofbones: Well abstract in the sense that their thoughts are thoughtless thoughts.
Maarii88: have you ever thought that maybe your brain thinks thoughtless thoughts, and a child's brain picks up on reality?
machineofbones: lol
machineofbones: They just don't question their existence.
Maarii88: so what?
machineofbones: So that makes them strong.
Maarii88: mmm.
Maarii88: nice thought
machineofbones: http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/cogsys/piaget.html
machineofbones: Stages of Cognitive Development. Piaget identified four stages in cognitive development:

Sensorimotor stage (Infancy). In this period (which has 6 stages), intelligence is demonstrated through motor activity without the use of symbols. Knowledge of the world is limited (but developing) because its based on physical interactions / experiences. Children acquire object permanence at about 7 months of age (memory). Physical development (mobility) allows the child to begin developing new intellectual abilities. Some symbollic (language) abilities are developed at the end of this stage.
Pre-operational stage (Toddler and Early Childhood). In this period (which has two substages), intelligence is demonstrated through the use of symbols, language use matures, and memory and imagination are developed, but thinking is done in a nonlogical, nonreversable manner. Egocentric thinking predominates
Concrete operational stage (Elementary and early adolescence). In this stage (characterized by 7 types of conservation: number, length, liquid, mass, weight, area, volume), intelligence is demonstarted through logical and systematic manipulation of symbols related to concrete objects. Operational thinking develops (mental actions that are reversible). Egocentric thought diminishes.
Formal operational stage (Adolescence and adulthood). In this stage, intelligence is demonstrated through the logical use of symbols related to abstract concepts. Early in the period there is a return to egocentric thought. Only 35% of high school graduates in industrialized countries obtain formal operations; many people do not think formally during adulthood.

Maarii88: i don't care about that
Maarii88: not right now
machineofbones: Well, it is a proven thing.
Maarii88: so?
machineofbones: Therefore it presents a truth.
Maarii88: not to me
machineofbones: So you vie to be ignorant purposely.
Maarii88: mmm. yep.
machineofbones: I would rather know.
Maarii88: well. me too. just not right now.
Maarii88: and i don't want to argure with you anymore.
Maarii88: so i'm going to go to bed
Maarii88: mitch
machineofbones: Formal operational stage (Adolescence and adulthood). In this stage, intelligence is demonstrated through the logical use of symbols related to abstract concepts. Early in the period there is a return to egocentric thought. Only 35% of high school graduates in industrialized countries obtain formal operations; many people do not think formally during adulthood.
Maarii88: ............. mitch. i'm tired. i'm emotionally all over the place I'm not going to dispute science with you
machineofbones: Well, it is indisputable.
machineofbones: It is fact.
Maarii88: i'm sure there's an exception somewhere
machineofbones: They have researched it.
machineofbones: Of course there is exceptions.
Maarii88: but it doesn't matter. you aren't proving anything
Maarii88: not to me
machineofbones: But this is the reality mostly all of the time.
Maarii88: mostly =-- but not all. so there
machineofbones: Well that still doesn't matter.
Maarii88: whatever
Maarii88: bye mitch
Maarii88: it's bed time for me
machineofbones: It still proves my point that children cannot question their existence.
Maarii88: - who cares. i'm sure thy can
machineofbones: Well, I care.
machineofbones: Because I like truth.
machineofbones: Rather than ignorance.
Maarii88: your truth
Maarii88: not anyone elsex
Maarii88: elses
machineofbones: Well, I will admit what I have said of what i believe is my truth.
machineofbones: But what science has gotten is truth.
Maarii88: Goodnight
Maarii88: be a scientist then.
Maarii88: goodnight
machineofbones: Okay.
machineofbones: Bye.
Maarii88: goodnight. and sweet dreams
machineofbones: It was nice talking.
Maarii88: yes.
Maarii88: bye
Maarii88 signed off at 1:52:48 AM.
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